Interviewer: So, you’re gay right?
Interviewer, : What would you say is the most defining feature of gay people in 2012?
Generi-gay: We hate Asians, Indians, Blacks, Hispanics, Islanders, and each other.
Interviewer: So you hate your so-called “typical” gays too?
Generi-gay: What do you mean? I AM a typical gay.
Interviewer: Oh wow…
Jordothomas: This is why my blog encourages NOTyourtypical gay! spreading love and help to people who need it
Stop Gay Racism and Homophobia: Jordo, you’re a moron and your site doesn’t help anyone. What you’ve just reblogged was a piece taking the piss out of your site – the point above is this – ALL THE AVERAGE GAYS (you know, the ones who say homophobic crap that you publish happily) ARE THE NEW “TYPICAL” GAYS. There are so many of them who hate on gay stereotypes that it is now “typical” behaviour. GET IT?
Jordothomas: I don’t listen to people who deliberately call other people rude names. I am not a moron.
Stop Gay Racism And Homophobia: Yes I am well aware of your proclivity towards only listening to what you want to hear!
Jordothomas: I don’t see how you could say that when you do the exact same thing. You are ONE person telling me to change. I don’t care if you’ve got an army, I will never change. My heart and mind are set on doing what I was meant to do. They say that the minute you are happy with yourself, there will be people who hate. I’ve gotten countless messages from people telling me that because they felt able to relate to the posts, that my blog has saved their life. That’s all I need to continue doing what I’m doing. I’ve ALSO received death and violent threats from people, sent from your blog to mine, because you portrayed my message in a negative manner. I sure as hell didn’t inspire the violence. You’re ruining the point behind your own blog by continuously posting about us. Have you heard about the Lil’ Kim – Nicki Minaj war? It’s about a newcomer making it big, and a veteran becoming jealous, and portraying Nickis message in a bad way, out of jealousy, and boredom, because she is failing. You still never answered my question that i asked nearly a month ago. If some random, irrelevant person out of 1000 came at you and told you you’re wrong and you need to change, would you change? Yes/No. You seem to weasel around the answer with some sly, old-age remark about how I’m naive and unchangable. GODDAMN motherfuckers are talking about me! Why the fuck should I give a shit and change my entire internet persona because some rude ass person from over-seas wants me to change? Greatwhitegravity and yourself, fuck off, or stay, I could give a single fuck whether you do one or the other, because the force that drives me does not give into people who hate. YOU were bothered and phased from the BEGINNING. You started this because YOU misunderstood our blog, and you told your drooling followers to hate us, and they did, but they followed you, so why the fuck should I care about mindless internet-zombie opinions? I shouldn’t. It’s like talking to a wall with you guys. We give you solutions like – submit more feminine empowering things to even out the quo, unfollow us, coexist, etc. But you guys tune out the solutions, why? Because you’re not out to change, you’re out to hate, endlessly, thats all your blog is, hate, that’s all you do to us, hate. I save lives with my blog, I help people and I’ve felt the greatest joy on earth because of it. Happiness.
Stop Gay Racism and Homophobia: Oh honey no. No to all that. I agree that gay people are diverse, and that non-stereotypical gay men need to know they will be accepted even if they don’t fit the stereotypes. I completely agree with you. Never argued against that ever. The problem is you are enabling language that makes stereotypical gays feel threatened. The frustration I have with you guys is you keep posting stuff that makes one type of gay guy feel good, and another feel like shit. Its also frustrating that your egos seem to get in the way when soneone challenges you on this. Its really great that you have helped some people, but you’ve also simultaneously hurt people too. You say that’s not your intention, which I believe. Problem is you also say it would be “too hard” to change that when it’s soooooooo simple. It would be so easy for you to do something like the following (here’s some CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions) –
1. Not publish posts that make stereotypical gays (who exist) feel like shit for being who they are; or
2. Publish the posts submitted to you, but edit them to make sure no stereotypical gay guy feels like shit because of it; or
3. Publish the posts submitted to you word for word, but include a commemt below that critiques the statement and explains why it is not acceptable for excluding/marginalising/insulting steretypical guys.
YOU COULD DO THIS!!!!
I know you are not bad people, but you’ve handled this criticism sooooo incredibly badly, and to me that’s very frustrating because it just seems like your egos are more mportant to you than anything else. You shouldn’t change because of me, you should change because you should do the right thing by the gay community. I’ve said it before – I have no problem with a lot of what you publish, but the problematic posts are sooooooo bad!!! You know I’m not the only one that criticises your blog – many feminists and gays are pissed off about it.
I don’t think it would be a difficult shift for you to employ some of the options I gave you above. Like I said, it’s not that many of your posts that cause offence. Please stop enabling language that offends certain groups of gay men! That’s the most important thing here. Not whether or not you or me like each other. You have a lot of followers, and every time you post something like “We’re not all flaming drag queens” (an example I just made up) you are making the flaming drag queens among us feel unwanted. Now, that’s as reasonable as I can get. I’m trying to lower the tone, not because I am sick of arguing with you (trust me, I can go on FOREVER), but because I am GENUINELY concerned about the damage some of your posts are causing to other younger gay men who encounter them.
As for your criticisms of my blog, I honestly don’t care for them too much at this point, because you only seem to criticise it when you are trying to retaliate to me. If you EVER have a constructive point to make (i.e. a suggestion like “maybe if you did things in this way instead, it might work better” or something) then I am HONESTLY and GENUINELY all ears to you and Rick.
Jordothomas: You also need to understand though, this is the internet. I misunderstand my mothers text messages for personal attacks if she doesn’t add a smiley face at the end. And having learned that you can’t take text on a screen so seriously, I put that philosophy into my work.
Rick and I said from the beginning, after seeing what POAGK went through, that we’d stick to our plan, and that plan was a long list of rules about how we wouldn’t give into pressure and keep moving forward.
I have a few issues that, I’ve been trying to handle very maturely, but as you can see with my last reblog, i’m completely fed-up with this.
My first issue is the fact that, from the beginning, you’ve given me the sense of failure/success, submission/dominance, and stupidity/knowledge. You sent me an email talking about how you didn’t want me to lose an arguement. And even now, you’re implying a challenge, a continuation by simply stating that you could argue forever. My sister gave me the same response when she told me why I shouldn’t carry a purse, but our conflict was soon settled because she could see my face and emotion in my words, not a heart/soul-less text. Now, I don’t have a mans mindset, I have a womans mindset. I don’t feel a sense of defense when someone disagrees with me, I don’t feel a challenge. I feel emotional about it, and I question everything I’ve ever learned in my life. So when you talk about our egos, I really don’t responde to that because there really isn’t one. I get called pretty and beautiful and sexy all day, but because I have had family and friends ranging from ugly-fat, I take every compliment seriously, thanking the person, and going on with my day. I do have an extremely humble personality, as does rick.
Which leads me into my next point.
You can’t always positively read someones intentions on the internet, even people on youtube become misread. GregoryGorgeous, Jeffree Star, Joey Graceffa, these are some people who have made it big on youtube, but get criticized daily. Greg gets it a lot for being “too gay”, Jeffree gets it (once from me) from his fans, because he doesn’t release music RIGHT when they want it or he doesn’t do something right as it’s commanded, Joey gets criticized for being gay even when he talks about past girlfriends and proms etc, nobody knows his sexuality but him, but it shouldnt matter. My point being, nobody will know what the real intention for the blog is without subconciously setting a standard for it, then enforcing that self-created standard on us, like we are made to listen to you.
You are not the only person wanting to change things. We get people everyday saying change this change that, i don’t like this, this post sucks. And we always reply with the same thing “if you want it to change, make the change”. My answer to the numerous feminists hating on my blog, if you all just chipped in 5 minutes of each of your time, you could EASILY submit enough posts to counter-act those already in the blog between you all, and could easily surpass the quo. But the problem that occurs there brings me back to the hate thing.
Nobody wants immediate change, that’d be too easy, then you’d have to find something else wrong with the blog. That’s why we are ADAMENT in our beliefs, because anybody could walk in, feeling entitiled, and tell us to change, and we won’t, because then the next person will come in, and find something wrong with the blog, then the next, then the next. And eventually, what will be of the blog?
We could do all the things you’ve said. And don’t misinterpret what I’m about to say. There is no implication in what i’m saying. The words tell exactly how it is.
We won’t do those things.
Reason being, and you have mentioned waking up, slaps in the face, etc. That’s where our blog bring that up to the fullest. People will submit a post saying “We dont all flick our rists” and then someone will scream at us for misspelling wrist. But then we kinda give them a slap by telling them to start double checking their submissions, then. We aren’t here to babysit, we are here to moderate. We can’t sit there and go back and change every single post for whatever reason people are offended by. It would never end once it began. And you do not change as you have claimed. I’ve seen over 5 people tell you to take things down, or to edit something, some even ask you rather nicely, but the misinterpretation comes in, and you completely throw them under the bus, back up, and drive over them again, calling them names, telling them that the people deserve it, etc. I’ve never actually seen you put your “ever-changing” philosophy into play. And just to wipe up that last lines mess, you’ve never seen ours either.
When i said about a month ago that we are two sides of the same coin, i simply meant that if your ambition is great, ours is equal. If on side is strong, the other side will be as well, because there is no difference other than a few embedded lines, rules in our case. If your arguments seem strong and opinionated, ours will be too, so when you call us stupid, or morons, or immature, or childish, or naive, we don’t take offense to that, just because by sitting there calling us that, you’re being those things, because only children call people names.
There was no need for this war from the beginning.
I feel like it started over one misconception, which led to another, and another, and then reblogs, and messages, and discussions, and then other people who had nothing better to do turned onto your misconceptions, and agreed, not because you’re right, because they like you, and anybody who likes you, agrees with you, unless they REALLY like you. Which is why I don’t ask people that i know on a personal level if this argument is stupid, i ask strangers, and they’ve never strayed from the same response of “it’s stupid, people shouldn’t feel argumental validation over the internet.
I don’t feel threatened. I don’t feel challenged. I feel confused.
POAGK messaged us, telling us that he dealt with many people attacking him for “internalized homophobia”. Having followed him for a very long time, his intentions were similar to ours, but it’s because people misunderstood, and blew it out of proportions. It’s as if people will find something wrong, tell others, they’ll agree, and then they think they can make some huge change because they are right.
My mother told me “when men are right, they are right. And when men are wrong, they are right”. That is how i feel when you tell me that you’re always right. I don’t give it a second glance because as much as our opinions are not swayed, neither are yours. You haven’t budged one inch since this began, and neither have we. So why can’t we stop this, cold turkey, and move on? Seeing as nobody is making any change whatsoever, I really see no need to continue this.
I’m going to confer with Rick, and we’re deciding what to do with this blog. We could shut down, but the 2000+ people that wait for our every move will be upset, as they have all stated. or we could continue, but no longer aknowledge you as an existing being, just simply coexist.
You’ve given us solutions to our blog, we’ve given you solutions to our blog. Who holds the steering wheel? We do, so when we say, submit feminine posts. We mean DO IT! not because we said, because some kid out there will feel good about themselves knowing that “Not all of us (are)___________”. It really is a task to copy over 100 texts, and post them with tags and queues. You can’t say it’s easy, when your blog doesn’t show that you’ve even done it. We stay up into the night for hours with just 20 submissions. We currently have over 30, meaning that’s a half a day right there, imagine if we edited the posts, that’d easily take another few hours. Then added our own beginning and ending, another few hours. We’re at 3/4 of a day. I have a life, I personally won’t do that, because i have other obligations. You are not children, we don’t need to wipe your mess and put it on our shelf, submit a proper post and there wouldn’t be any problem, submit femme posts, but make them literate, or people will murder your soul with messages, etc.
All I’m saying is, if there is such a following, and you all agree that there should be different posts, good, gather them all up, invite them to an e-party, and submit posts, we’ll post them, we’ve never ignored a post. Add your “but there’s nothing wrong with that” to the end, we’ll post it.
Stop Gay Racism and Internalised Homophobia: I agree with you. I don’t think you should go backwards and changed what you have already posted. But I do think you should change what you do moving forward. You say you are both there to moderate – so do it. When submissions are made that shit on stereotypical or non-stereotypical gays, then MODERATE THEM. You can’t keep posting stuff people send you that shits on typical gays – its so not fair. You are just enabling homophobia every time you give these sorts of statements airplay. I don’t think you should shut the blog down – with over 2000 followers you should use that microphone to spread nothing but acceptance. Unfortunately some of the stuff people send you does not reinforce that at all, and that really needs to stop. We all cop sooooo much shit from the hetero-world, we don’t need it perpetuated in the non-hetero world. “Typical” gays, as your blog calls them, are real, and they exist, and comments that make them sound like the “bad” kind of gay, whether you mean to do it or not, are being published by your blog. So I am happy to stop this war but you have to start considering the language you are sending out to those 2000 followers. You know the cliche – with great power comes great responsibility. Well, you have the power with all those followers. My question is are you ready for the responsibility of what that means. Saying, “submit pro-feminine posts” is way off the mark. Your blog’s name says it all (the average gay, not the typical one). Even the name insinuates something negative towards the stereotypes. Let’s make something clear – there’s nothing wrong with the stereotypical gay man. What’s wrong is how society views and treats that man. Please stop allowing language that reinforces the negatives that heteronormative society has placed on these people – they deserve your respect. POAGK and yourselves deserve some of this criticism (that is not said in anger or to upset you). You deserve it because some of your posts are reinforcing and supporting the exact kind of language heteronormative society uses against us all. Instead of giving a voice to gay men who are still using this language, you should be using your voice to teach them acceptance of all gays. In my mind you both have a real chance to make a real difference, but its not going to happen if you keep putting these sorts of statements up with no commentary, no criticism, no insight attached. All you are doing at the moment when you put these posts up (and I know its not on purpose and have always known that) is enabling and supporting negative language against your own people. I’m not asking you to overthink every single post – but it should be obvious to you when someone submits “not all of us sway out hips when we walk” (example) that it will insult those of us who DO sway. What’s wrong isn’t the swaying of the hips, what’s wrong is a heteronormative society that tells us people who do it are inferior/sick/abnormal/faggotty etc. Am I making sense to you with all this?
Jordothomas: Our point is, what IS the typical gay? There is no typical gay, we are all the same in one way or another, that is the point behind our blog. Breaking the stereotypes that make people feel like one gay is different than another by means of dress, style, body movements, etc. and as much as you imply that we spread homophobia, we also imply that there IS nothing wrong with being who you are.
Stop Gay Racism and Homophobia: No, that message is not clear in any way from your blog. Even underneath the title you make a distinction between the “typical” and the “average”. Let’s leave it for a while, I think you both need to think about some of this for a while. If that is really your message, then I don’t this your blog has been successful. Again, you need to stop putting up posts that make one gay man feel accepted and another feel excluded. If you really are trying to teach people that all gays are the same, then I think you need to make some changes. (Just look at some of the criticism you have been getting – not from me, but from others, and you will see that some of your posts are hitting WAY off the mark). – Oh and as an afterthought, you say “what is a typical gay? they are all the same in one way or another” – but your blog says “We’re not all the same” right there on the front! Confusing to say the least…